Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Vesey, Role Player Evolution, Faceoff Against Cancer

Really not getting all the hype over this kid. Sure he's an ok player but thats it, Just OK, nothing great.

It seems a lot of people think Vesey will step in and score 25 goals. He might, but I see 10-15 as much more likely. He's a good prospect, but it's not like adding an instant John LeClair

It seems a lot of people think Vesey will step in and score 25 goals. He might, but I see 10-15 as much more likely. He's a good prospect, but it's not like adding an instant John LeClair
- Jsaquella

Precisely.

Given this recent draft, it seems if you don't have that 2 way game, Hextall doesn't seem interested. Not that the Flyers couldn't use some help in the goal scoring department, but if he doesn't project to be an elite goal scorer, not sure what Flyers would have a huge interest.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Vesey, Role Player Evolution, Faceoff Against Cancer
- bmeltzer

Regardless of what type of ceiling Jimmy Vesey may have, unless he's a top 6 guarantee on the left side, there is no need for him. Who will Vesey be duking it out to prove he's the better left wing, Michael Raffl? Honestly, we're fine without signing another average player.

It seems a lot of people think Vesey will step in and score 25 goals. He might, but I see 10-15 as much more likely. He's a good prospect, but it's not like adding an instant John LeClair
- Jsaquella

Here's the thing with Vesey. It's not necessarily the production he would bring in the short run, it's the balance he would bring to the lineup, particularly in skill set. The team is sorely deficient on the left side, particularly with guys who seem to have that knack for scoring. They also need a third-line that brings at least a threat of offense, which they don't really have.

That having been said, I highly doubt that they land Vesey, or any other top-flight college FA forward for that matter. The reality is that Hextall/Hakstol are far too conservative, and frankly, honest. Some team will promise Vesey top 6 minutes at the NHL level playing with a top Center. If Hextall were to say they'd start him off playing with G, then maybe they'd have a good shot. I don't see him making that kind of guarantee.

Given this recent draft, it seems if you don't have that 2 way game, Hextall doesn't seem interested. Not that the Flyers couldn't use some help in the goal scoring department, but if he doesn't project to be an elite goal scorer, not sure what Flyers would have a huge interest.
- Pelle31Forever

This too. Over time - particularly if they continue to struggle in the goal scoring department and it affects their ability to make or succeed in the playoffs - maybe Hextall/Hakstol tweak their philosophy and bring in a more one-dimensional elite-level forward. But they are going to ride their current approach at least a couple of seasons before any course-correction would occur.

This too. Over time - particularly if they continue to struggle in the goal scoring department and it affects their ability to make or succeed in the playoffs - maybe Hextall/Hakstol tweak their philosophy and bring in a more one-dimensional elite-level forward. But they are going to ride their current approach at least a couple of seasons before any course-correction would occur.
- TheGreat28

I've always had issues imbracing this new idea of the Flyers Hextall seems to be trying to put together. Skating, responsible 2 way game, playing within the system. I know it sounds crazy as I'm saying it but you also need players who specialize and excel in certain eras of the game. I don't think Phil Kessel is this fantastic two way winger but clearly he excels of contributing in offense, which every team needs. I personally have always enjoyed being known as a tough team. Never we're giving some of those types away and becoming more vanilla.

I don't view Konecny or Laberge as particularly good 2-way forwards. Or Schenn for that matter. And they're here. But they have good work ethic and fight to their game. So long as you're willing to work and learn and have the requisite IQ to be an NHL'er, becoming a competent (at the least) defensive player isn't all that hard. Can't say the same about grinders learning to score.

I don't think Hexy has a problem with more offensive players. He has shown he aims for a diverse group and balance. By all means, everything being equal, give me the heady 3 zone player, but usually everything is not equal. You just have to, rightfully, in his book....1) be good enough offensively....and 2) be the type of character player who is always working and trying to improve. After all, it's hard to build a winner when you want to pass up the Nikita Kucherovs of the world for the likes of Tyler Biggs. Not to mention, many of those elite offensive talents are in fact better 2-way than they're often given credit for. They're just subtle about it.

Here's a wacky idea for a slow August day.

After the season the Flyers trade Sanheim to the Isles for Ryan Pulock. The Isles benefit by getting a good young dman who is exempt from the expansion draft, and the Flyers benefit by getting a good young dman who is a year ahead in development and is right handed.

For this to happen MDZ would have to be leaving, and Sanheim & Pulock would have to have seasons that made them basically the same in value. So it's a real longshot, but I know Pulock is a favorite of some here and NYI seem like they are in a tough spot with the expansion draft.

I don't view Konecny or Laberge as particularly good 2-way forwards. Or Schenn for that matter. And they're here. But they have good work ethic and fight to their game. So long as you're willing to work and learn and have the requisite IQ to be an NHL'er, becoming a competent (at the least) defensive player isn't all that hard. Can't say the same about grinders learning to score.

I don't think Hexy has a problem with more offensive players. He has shown he aims for a diverse group and balance. By all means, everything being equal, give me the heady 3 zone player, but usually everything is not equal. You just have to, rightfully, in his book....1) be good enough offensively....and 2) be the type of character player who is always working and trying to improve. After all, it's hard to build a winner when you want to pass up the Nikita Kucherovs of the world for the likes of Tyler Biggs. Not to mention, many of those elite offensive talents are in fact better 2-way than they're often given credit for. They're just subtle about it.
- Mononoke

I agree. I think it's about balancing out the roster more so than adding several kinds of one type of player. Especially via the draft.

Here's a wacky idea for a slow August day.

After the season the Flyers trade Sanheim to the Isles for Ryan Pulock. The Isles benefit by getting a good young dman who is exempt from the expansion draft, and the Flyers benefit by getting a good young dman who is a year ahead in development and is right handed.

For this to happen MDZ would have to be leaving, and Sanheim & Pulock would have to have seasons that made them basically the same in value. So it's a real longshot, but I know Pulock is a favorite of some here and NYI seem like they are in a tough spot with the expansion draft.
- Feanor

That's a lot of "what if's" when basically you would be swapping d prospects. Plus we would be getting the older player in Pulock (not by much but still). Pulock being a righty helps your case but I would probably want NYI to add a 2nd or something since we would be essentially doing them a favor in the expansion draft.

Overall I don't hate the idea but right now I prefer Sanheim over Pulock.

Here's a wacky idea for a slow August day.

After the season the Flyers trade Sanheim to the Isles for Ryan Pulock. The Isles benefit by getting a good young dman who is exempt from the expansion draft, and the Flyers benefit by getting a good young dman who is a year ahead in development and is right handed
- Feanor

I think Sanheim is a better prospect than Pulock, good as he is, with more potential. The 1 year age difference and the fact that he's a righty is not enough to bridge the gap between them imo. And to trade him to a division rival no less would not be ideal. We'd be giving them the higher ceiling player and helping them navigate their awful expansion situation.

If and when we trade one of our D because of a glut, it should be for a top line type forward.

This is...

The job of "media" today is to make money. Draw in readers, get views for an article, etc. Create controversy.

You simply have to watch your own American news/sport networks to see that.

Thats all that list is about.

I've always had issues imbracing this new idea of the Flyers Hextall seems to be trying to put together. Skating, responsible 2 way game, playing within the system. I know it sounds crazy as I'm saying it but you also need players who specialize and excel in certain eras of the game. I don't think Phil Kessel is this fantastic two way winger but clearly he excels of contributing in offense, which every team needs. I personally have always enjoyed being known as a tough team. Never we're giving some of those types away and becoming more vanilla.
- roenick97

Well, I'm comforted by the fact that Hextall and Hakstol have both forgotten more about hockey than I'll ever know. Still, Andy Reid didn't reach the Superbowl until he abandoned the stubborn idea that you can win with Torrance Small and James Thrash.

I think the plan to create offense from a mobile defense that can quickly gather the puck and transition up ice is sound. But you still need guys to put the biscuit in the basket. I still have reservations about the mix of forwards and goal scoring. I still have doubts as to whether passing on Bellows was the right move. But we'll have to see how it all plays out.

Hopefully their plan is the correct course and we'll get there sooner rather than later. If not, then hopefully they will adapt a little sooner than Andy.

Well, I'm comforted by the fact that Hextall and Hakstol have both forgotten more about hockey than I'll ever know. Still, Andy Reid didn't reach the Superbowl until he abandoned the stubborn idea that you can win with Torrance Small and James Thrash.

I think the plan to create offense from a mobile defense that can quickly gather the puck and transition up ice is sound. But you still need guys to put the biscuit in the basket. I still have reservations about the mix of forwards and goal scoring. I still have doubts as to whether passing on Bellows was the right move. But we'll have to see how it all plays out.

Hopefully their plan is the correct course and we'll get there sooner rather than later. If not, then hopefully they will adapt a little sooner than Andy.
- TheGreat28

I know this has absolutely nothing to do with your post but i'm from Chadds Ford too! woo!

I know this has absolutely nothing to do with your post but i'm from Chadds Ford too! woo!
- Mordecai

Cool. We moved here in 2009. Really great town. I live over in John Boruk's neighborhood. Going to the Kennett Brewfest?

Here's a wacky idea for a slow August day.

After the season the Flyers trade Sanheim to the Isles for Ryan Pulock. The Isles benefit by getting a good young dman who is exempt from the expansion draft, and the Flyers benefit by getting a good young dman who is a year ahead in development and is right handed.

For this to happen MDZ would have to be leaving, and Sanheim & Pulock would have to have seasons that made them basically the same in value. So it's a real longshot, but I know Pulock is a favorite of some here and NYI seem like they are in a tough spot with the expansion draft.
- Feanor

I really was pissed the Flyers passed on him to grab Morin. My thought at the time was that they really needed a more mobile, offensive defenseman and I was never sold on the idea that Morin would contribute Pronger-like offense.

Still not sure it was the right call, but the subsequent drafting of Sanheim and Provorov, and the emergence of Ghost, dampened my unhappiness about the move. And now, Morin actually may better fit in with the mix of young defenseman than Pulock.

At this point though, I'm not sure I'd do it. I like Sanheim's potential. But your case makes sense though and I wouldn't hate it if Hextall made that trade.

Well, I'm comforted by the fact that Hextall and Hakstol have both forgotten more about hockey than I'll ever know. Still, Andy Reid didn't reach the Superbowl until he abandoned the stubborn idea that you can win with Torrance Small and James Thrash.

I think the plan to create offense from a mobile defense that can quickly gather the puck and transition up ice is sound. But you still need guys to put the biscuit in the basket. I still have reservations about the mix of forwards and goal scoring. I still have doubts as to whether passing on Bellows was the right move. But we'll have to see how it all plays out.

Hopefully their plan is the correct course and we'll get there sooner rather than later. If not, then hopefully they will adapt a little sooner than Andy.
- TheGreat28

I'm comforted by the D coming up soon within the pipeline but I also have concerns with the current mix at forward. I'm glad we have a plan, I just agree that it's a stubborn point of view.

This is...
- Mononoke

why?

This is...
- Mononoke

I <3 me some Ghost, but 18th best dman in the league?

Mark Giordano must be like.... wut.

I <3 me some Ghost, but 18th best dman in the league?

Mark Giordano must be like.... wut.
- Tomahawk

Karlsson 2, Burns 3, OEL 10 (out of top 5 and below Weber yet), Seabrook near the list at all, Ekblad is not 15 yet nor Ghost 18, conspicuous absence of Gio (especially...he should be flirting with top 10) and Brodie and Lindholm and maybe even Faulk, Vlasic all the way at 20, Carlson 19 for some reason over the guys I just listed, no Kris Russell. This list has EJ Hradek written all over it alright.

I really was pissed the Flyers passed on him to grab Morin. My thought at the time was that they really needed a more mobile, offensive defenseman and I was never sold on the idea that Morin would contribute Pronger-like offense.

Still not sure it was the right call, but the subsequent drafting of Sanheim and Provorov, and the emergence of Ghost, dampened my unhappiness about the move. And now, Morin actually may better fit in with the mix of young defenseman than Pulock.

At this point though, I'm not sure I'd do it. I like Sanheim's potential. But your case makes sense though and I wouldn't hate it if Hextall made that trade.
- TheGreat28

I don't think anybody, including the Flyers ever felt that Morin would contribute Pronger-like offense.